1687117 - Provide an option to use the classic "To/From/BCC" switcher in the compose window

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Thunderbird :: Message Compose Window, enhancement)

Description

[diamondavocado22]

Thunderbird 78 introduced a redesigned compose window.

Compared to the previous v68 design, the new window layout makes it more difficult to change lists of recipients from (e.g.) CC to BCC or vice versa using the keyboard.

TB78:
https://i.imgur.com/iRhst1r.png

TB68:
https://i.imgur.com/ObyRiOk.png

Example: changing a list of recipients from BCC to CC while writing an email

Thunderbird 68:

1. Shift+Tab (focuses Subject line)
2. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC recipient list)
3. Shift+Tab (focuses To/From/BCC switcher)
4. Up arrow (changes BCC to CC)
   Total: 4 keystrokes, no function keys or context menus

Thunderbird 78:

1. Shift+Tab (focuses Subject line)
2. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC recipient list)
3. Ctrl+A (selects all recipients)
4. Shift+F10 (opens context menu)
5. C (highlights "Copy")
6. C (highlights "Move to CC")
7. Return (moves recipients to CC)
   Total: 7 keystrokes, function keys and context menu navigation needed

Thunderbird should provide an option to display the classic "To/From/BCC" switcher to the left of each recipient list. This provides easier keyboard navigation and a simpler way to switch between recipient types using the keyboard.

This is particularly useful for enterprise users, especially when combined with improvements suggested in bug 1616514.

Comment 1

[Anje]

AS the discussion is specifically about the display and functionality of the TO, Cc, Bcc located to the left of the email addresses/pills
It would also be useful to have the TO, Cc or Bcc visible at all times as it is possible to loose visibility due to the scrolling.
See Bug 1674648

Comment 2

[Richard Leger]

(In reply to diamondavocado22 from comment #0)

Thunderbird 78 introduced a redesigned compose window.
Compared to the previous v68 design, the new window layout makes it more difficult to change lists of recipients from (e.g.) CC to BCC or vice versa using the keyboard.

I think your intention here is to try to find a way to improve the new design and keyboard shortcuts path to speed up the move of recipients between fields rather than to the return to classic "To/From/BCC" switcher labels (which obviously won't happen).
Correct me if I am wrong... If that is the case, then I would suggest to re-word the title of this bug.

I have created 5x recipients in BCC, and attempted to move them only with the keyboard as per your own tests and here are the results I get starting from the body:

Thunderbird 68.12.0 (32-bit):

1. Shift+Tab, Shift+Tab (focuses Subject line) - I had to do it twice for some reason outside the scope of this bug
2. Shift+Tab (focuses 5th recipient email address)
3. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC switcher label)
4. Up arrow (changes BCC to CC)
5. Shift+Tab (focuses 4th recipient email address)
6. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC switcher label)
7. Up arrow (changes BCC to CC)
8. Shift+Tab (focuses 3rd recipient email address)
9. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC switcher label)
10. Up arrow (changes BCC to CC)
11. Shift+Tab (focuses 2nd recipient email address)
12. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC switcher label)
13. Up arrow (changes BCC to CC)
14. Shift+Tab (focuses 1st recipient email address)
15. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC switcher label)
16. Up arrow (changes BCC to CC)
    Total: 16-17 keystrokes, no function keys or context menus

Thunderbird 78.6.1 (64-bit):

1. Shift+Tab, Shift+Tab (focuses Subject line) - I had to do it twice for some reason outside the scope of this bug
2. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC field)
3. Ctrl+A (selects all recipients)
4. Context Menu Key (opens context menu) - This requires only one key press and avoid use of function key :-) but Shift+F10 remain valid
5. Double click C (highlights "Move to CC")
6. Return (moves recipients to CC)
   Total: 7 keystrokes, context menu navigation needed

Clearly the new design win over the old one as the number of keystroke remain the same disregarding the number of recipients... the old one worthen as number of recipient increases...

That said, I would tend to think there may be room for improvements...

@Thomas D.

As you are implementing the following shortcuts in Bug 1667692:
Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+T --> To
Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+C --> Cc
Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+B --> Bcc

Can't those be used to move a selection of recipients to those fields?

So if no recipient are selected you go to the field and start typing recipients, but if recipients are selected it would move that selection to the destination field?

This way in 78 version you would get:

1. Shift+Tab, Shift+Tab (focuses Subject line) - I had to do it twice for some reason outside the scope of this bug
2. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC field)
3. Ctrl+A (selects all recipients)
4. Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+C (move selected recipients to CC field)
   Total: 4x key strokes (3x less than current implementation)

Regards,
Richard

Comment 3

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin]]

Marking wontfix, as we're not going to do this.

Comment 4

[Richard Leger]

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #3)

Marking wontfix, as we're not going to do this.

Is the WONTFIX related to the title or to the comments that suggest this bug may be related to improve keyboard shortcut path for moving recipients between fields easierly with just the keyboard? I do think the title is misleading here...

Comment 5

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to Richard Leger from comment #4)

(In reply to Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] from comment #3)

Marking wontfix, as we're not going to do this.

Is the WONTFIX related to the title or to the comments that suggest this bug may be related to improve keyboard shortcut path for moving recipients between fields more easily with just the keyboard? I do think the title is misleading here...

I've been working on a solution for the "keyboard shortcut to easily move selected recipients between To/CC/BCC" issue - I'll file a new bug for that.

Bug 1687432 - Provide no-brainer keyboard shortcut to easily move selected recipients between To/CC/BCC

Comment 6

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

(In reply to Richard Leger from comment #2)

I have created 5x recipients in BCC, and attempted to move them only with the keyboard as per your own tests and here are the results I get starting from the body:

Thunderbird 68.12.0 (32-bit): [snip]
Total: 16-17 keystrokes, no function keys or context menus

Thunderbird 78.6.1 (64-bit): [snip]
Total: 7 keystrokes, context menu navigation needed

Clearly the new design win over the old one as the number of keystroke remain the same disregarding the number of recipients... the old one worthen as number of recipient increases...

Thank you very much Richard for doing those counts, exactly that!!

That said, I would tend to think there may be room for improvements...

Yes.

@Thomas D.

As you are implementing the following shortcuts in Bug 1667692:
Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+T --> To
Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+C --> Cc
Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+B --> Bcc

Can't those be used to move a selection of recipients to those fields?
So if no recipient are selected you go to the field and start typing recipients, but if recipients are selected it would move that selection to the destination field?

Probably no. Initially I had that idea too, but now I think it wouldn't work very well. If you overload the field access/open shortcut to also move selected recipients, that means that each time you just want to just open another field like BCC, you'd have to make sure that you don't have any recipient selected for whatever reason. Which would exclude/complicate/add an extra step to a lot of valid scenarios. Iow, the access/open shortcut would become conditional instead of universal, and it would be much less straightforward to use it and feel harder. We really want no-brainer shortcuts here which work every time, from everywhere. Access/Open and move are two different things, so imo it's better to keep them separate.

This way in 78 version you would get:

1. Shift+Tab, Shift+Tab (focuses Subject line) - I had to do it twice for some reason outside the scope of this bug
2. Shift+Tab (focuses BCC field)

No, you'd use Ctrl+Shift+B to open the BCC field focused. 2 steps less! ;-)

1. Ctrl+A (selects all recipients)
2. Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+C (move selected recipients to CC field)

Yes, with a different shortcut (I've proposed long keypress on "C" - non-localized -, which is about as simple as it can get).

Total: 4x key strokes (3x less than current implementation)

I counted 5, but using the new shortcuts they'll be only 3 :-)))