701042 - Publish comprehensive (but concise) lists of user-facing changes (e.g., keyboard-shortcuts) between major releases and make such URLs more visible

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(support.mozillamessaging.com Graveyard :: Knowledge Base Articles, defect)

Description

[johnnyutahh]

User Agent: Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; U; en) Presto/2.9.168 Version/11.52

Steps to reproduce:

Per Bug 701030, went looking for a comprehensive (but concise) list of keyboard-shortcut changes between TB 7.x and 8.x.  Didn't find any at following places:
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/8.0/releasenotes/
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/releases/


Actual results:

Per Bug 701030, no sufficient or at least easily-discoverable docs to address this matter.


Expected results:

Per Bug 701030 and potentially other, unannounced changes like it, best to have list of changes documented and easily discoverable/presentable in regular-process fashion. Else folks like me will continue to post these bugs, making time spent efficient for both user and developers (to respond).  Further, TB might unknowingly lose users who become frustrated with no no documented keyboard-shortcut (nor UI?) changes.

Comment 1

[johnnyutahh]

(Updating bug title to clarify request.)

Comment 2

[rsx11m]

Well, the "What's new" section says "New Search and Find Shortcuts" but that's as unspecific as it can get. As a minimum, this should refer to some KB article listing the details of that change, and/or to the bug in question (bug 564328), so that the user gets an idea what has changed.

Similarly, "Folder switching pane widget removed" has neither a reference to the bug which hides the widget now (bug 667245) nor to the add-on to make it visible again.

Thus, there is definitely room for improvements for the relnotes - I know that there is http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/new-thunderbird-8 summarizing changes and also listing the shortcuts, but it's incomplete for bug 667245 (and instant feedback on GS shows that quite a few users are missing that features), and those summary pages are extremely hard to find when you don't know what you are looking for (not linked from the KB start page).

BTW: http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts still states Ctrl+F for the Quick-Filter bar as well, and that page is linked from the KB start page...

Comment 3

[Jim Porter (:squib)]

(In reply to rsx11m from comment #2)
> Well, the "What's new" section says "New Search and Find Shortcuts" but
> that's as unspecific as it can get. As a minimum, this should refer to some
> KB article listing the details of that change, and/or to the bug in question
> (bug 564328), so that the user gets an idea what has changed.

It does refer to a KB article, at least for me: http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/new-thunderbird-8

Granted, the "what's new" page could be improved in some ways, but I imagine a lot of people ignore it anyway, so maybe calling out changes there isn't enough.

Comment 4

[rsx11m]

I was talking about http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/8.0/releasenotes/ not the first-run page. The latter indeed is usually ignored, but when a user runs into issues, he or she may decide to revisit the release notes for statements on any changes, or go to the Support site and thus to the Knowledge Base. So, these two are the places were I'm missing a hint for important changes in a current update.

Comment 5

[johnnyutahh]

Thx all for following up quickly and diligently on this; as original bug poster, extremely appreciated.

Slightly related, but slightly off-topic question:  can someone point to keyboard-shortcut customizations from this documentation in the future (and even for -me- right now), as a pertinent source to "correct customize" for power users when the keyboard/UI changes?

Selfish, immediate motivation:  like to think of myself as a growing master at running TB exclusively from keyboard (and rarely a mouse).  Have all the keystrokes burned into my habits.  The conversion of cmd-F to shift-cmd-K has already deleted/transferred/refiled a whole slew of my emails unexpectedly.  (think about automatically "cmd-F"-ing and immediately typing in search string... but now those search strings in 8.0 are getting immediate interpreted as Nostalgy single-keystroke cmds, and wreaking all sorts of havoc.)  Yes, yes, cmd-Z will hopefully return the emails, but sorry to mention: they don't always "return" in IMAP-sync schemes.  (and often are lost... forever...screwing up my very-important email filing system)  And yes this is another bug... but I know so many TB bugs that I have yet to document that I could spend prob 2 whole days (not embellishing) re-testing and documenting them properly (of which don't have time now), but you can see just -some- of them in my 'hydrostarr' postings on mozillazine forums.  But I digress...

But back to original question question: where are the docs to keyboard customize, if any customization is supported?

(And understand that the cmd/cntrl-F had to be changed for some reason... but gotta say... this change is -really- wreaking havoc for me right now, and rather-business-important email filing system, and suspect some other "keyboard jockey" Nostalgy users as well who aren't as "bugzilla plugged in.")

<Sorry for typos/poor grammar/unpolished post... writing bleary-eyed at end of long day...>

Comment 6

[rsx11m]

According to bug 667245 comment #63, Jonathan is working on a KB article for the folder-view switcher, so that part is covered. Thus, charges for this bug here are:

 - Make sure that Ctrl+F > Ctrl+Shift+K change is corrected where needed
 - add a link to the MZ KeyConfig thread to "keyboard-shortcuts" article
 - link to the current "new-thunderbird-x" from the main KB page
 - link to the current "new-thunderbird-x" from the release notes
 - add bug numbers to the "new-thunderbird-x" articles for reference

Hope this summary covers it all.

Comment 7

[johnnyutahh]

Thx rsx11m, seems like good summary except for one thing:
Is there a way to customize keyboard-shortcuts?

(My brain is trained for "Cmd-F" on not only TB but all my other apps to "search for content in current context"--in TB's case, the email-msg list.  Per Comment 5 have deleted/transferred numerous emails I won't get back.  Desperately need to change the keyboard shortcut back to "Cmd-F" for my installation.  Thx for any help.)

Comment 8

[rsx11m]

See bug 564328 comment #162 for pointers to the KeyConfig extension, that's what I referred to in my 2nd item of comment #6 here to be added to the "keyboard-shortcuts" KB article.

Comment 9

[jenzed]

per comment #6:

Done:

 - Make sure that Ctrl+F > Ctrl+Shift+K change is corrected where needed
 - add a link to the MZ KeyConfig thread to "keyboard-shortcuts" article
 - (in "New to Thunderbird" section in top left - should be live shortly) link to the current "new-thunderbird-x" from the main KB page

Rafael: 

 - (see email for more detail) link to the current "new-thunderbird-x" from the release notes

Not done:

 - add bug numbers to the "new-thunderbird-x" articles for reference (We already link to pages (on MozillaZine and the Rumbling Edge) that contain lists organized by bug number. The idea of the Knowledge Base page is that it doesn't contain information that is unnecessary for the majority of users.)

Thanks for the summary, rsx11m. It made it a lot easier to fix.

Comment 10

[Roland Tanglao needinfo please :rolandtanglao, :mohnkuchen, :adobo, :sinigang, :roland]

I'd also like to point out that SuMoMo aka "support.mozillamessaging.com" aka the "Thunderbird Knowledge Base"is a wiki so anybody can change it and in fact we encourage people to change it.

yes any edits have to be approved but we usually approve edits in hour or days i.e. there's not a huge approval delay (and if there is email me or ping me on IRC and I'll look at it right away)

So RSX11m, hydroestar or others if you need edits in the KB, please don't wait, go ahead and make the edits and we'll probably approve them without much modification (and if we don't we'll tell you why). 

Finally, if you are unsure you can always start a "NEEDS DRAFT" thread on support.mozillamesssaging.com as per:
https://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/improve-knowledge-base

and jen or I or some other contributor will take it from there

Comment 11

[rsx11m]

This looks good, the "What's new in Thunderbird 8" article is now referenced in http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/home and thus shows up when the user hits Help > Help Contents [F1]; it also has the link to Jonathan's extension now.

With 9.0 beta 1, there is also now a summarizing list of all bugs that were fixed, http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/9.0beta/releasenotes/buglist.html which is quite helpful both as a reference for beta testers and to derive the "What's new" pages from (given that the raw list is likely a bit overwhelming for non-power users). The "Rumbling Edge" doesn't seem to track Thunderbird releases any more.

Thanks for taking care of these additions so quickly, that should help.

Comment 12

[rsx11m]

Are we done here or is there anything else that needs to be taken care of?

Comment 13

[jenzed]

Let's keep this open until Rafael's changes to the release notes are done.

Comment 14

[johnnyutahh]

Want to say thx again everyone for the quick and thorough response to shore up the release notes and associated docs/procedures.  Impressive.

Separately: trying to use TB at "full speed" on MacOS again, seeking help with keyboard customization:

Can someone post the "simplest," known-working procedure for customizing TB 8.0 cmd-shift-K keyboard shortcut in MacOS 10.6.x in the "msg list view" back to original cmd-F functionality (in pre-TB-8)?  Or better yet... just change the mapping back to cmd-F by defaul in a future upgrade of TB 8.x?  Getting a little desparate; may offer a bounty if necessary.

All in all... this keyboard-shortcut mapping change in TB 8.0 is resulting in a significant project undertaking for me.  Would like to somehow lesson this workload.

Details:

[If this conversation deserves a separate bug/forum post, pls holler, thx.]

Still struggling to change cmd-shift-K (on MacOS) back to cmd-F via some keybaord customization.  Have rewired my brain to cmd-shift-K now on TB... but am now pressing cmd-shift-K in all my other apps (spreadsheets, editors, web browsers, etc) and this swap has proven quite difficult for me in this "global app usage" space.  Further: cmd-F no longer does -anything- (that I can tell) in the msg list view in TB 8.0, the primary place where I use cmd-shift-K, so I'm still a bit confused as to why a key-mapping change was originally made (in the msg list view).

But back to the keyboard customization: it appears to be a non-trivial endeavor, complicated by the inconsistent docs and/or unclear procedures (eg: not totally sure where an "authoritative" download of a keyconfig existion lives; why not on TB Add-ons site?).  Per comment 8 and other hunting, came up with following resources (links below).  Alas, there seems to be no consistent procedure (and certainly no simple procedure) to make what I would hope to be a simple, keyboard-shortcut change (which, eg, is very simple in MacOS keyboard prefereces; -might- be simple in LaunchBar, Quicksilver, or Launchy, but have yet to try these utilities, and am a bit hesitate to haul off and learn those mechanisms to fix one little thing in TB... but if I must I must).  Have to admit that I'm wondering why this is all so hard; can't TB just "play like every other app" instead of forcing me to rewire the brain -only- for TB?  (fwiw, like to think of myself as a fairly seasoned computer user, admin, and programmer.  I'm not daunted by cross-platform sysadmin from macos, to various linuxes both desktop and server, to windows xp/7; further, programming python/fabric and C/C++ and bash code; but all this TB customization has not consistent documentation/method and/or is at least a straw breaking the camel's back.)

The "keyconfig"/keyboard-customization references discovered in brief search, as promised:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=72994
http://guarly.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/thunderbird-3-onwards-and-keyconfig-how-to-make-it-work/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/thunderbird/addon/functions-for-keyconfig-thunde/
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keyconfig_extension
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keyconfig_extension:_Thunderbird (curiously provides no link to actually acquire the software...)

Comment 15

[johnnyutahh]

( fwiw, posted an comment here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57805#c129 )

Comment 16

[rsx11m]

Your last link points to http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keyconfig_extension which in turn points to the http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=72994 thread for download and discussion. Indeed the discussion on how to actually use KeyConfig is beyond the scope of bugzilla (which handles specific issues in these bug reports), thus asking any specific questions on how to use it is best done in the MozillaZine forum thread. Also note that neither that forum nor the MZ Knowledge Base aren't run by Mozilla but by an independent group of volunteers over there.

Comment 17

[johnnyutahh]

Thx rsx11m for timely reply.  Per comment 16: yep, referenced that exact same forum thread in comment 14.  Alas, per the accountability vacuum you mention, having trouble following procedures originally posted in 2004 (edited in 2011... but who knows if they're applicable to TB 8.x?) for keyboard customization... and procedures for http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=72994 are not simple/clear.  But if this is -the- authoritative keyconfig/keyboard-customization reference, and it's known to work on TB 8.x, I can work to power through it.

Alas, am pining to instead simply see if we can change the msg-list-view cmd-F functionality back to what it was in TB 7.x (because it doesn't appear to do anything, again in the msg-list-view, in TB 8.x).  And my short-term problem will be solved without further surgery.  :)

Thoughts, all?

Comment 18

[Vito Tuxedo]

(In reply to hydrostarr from comment #17)

> Thoughts, all?

In principle, you should be able to simply assign the Command-F keystroke to the Quick Filter contextual menu item in Mac OS X 10.6.x using System Preferences:Keyboard:Keyboard Shortcuts. In fact, I was able to do it. When I use the mouse in TB 8.0 to select View:Toolbars, the Quick Filter Bar submenu now shows Command-F as the associated keystroke combination. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. Apparently, TB 8's mapping of that menu item to Command-Shift-K is overriding the system level keystroke assignment. 

Sorry...wish I could help. This bug is similar to a similar long-standing bug that goes all the way back to the Mozilla Suite. (I see that you've already posted a comment in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57805). There has never been a good way to handle configurable/user-defined keys in Mozilla Suite or its daughter apps (including the SeaMonkey Suite), and apparently that's still the case with TB 8.

Comment 19

[johnnyutahh]

Extremely helpful followup, freevito, thx much.

Am now wondering how much we can "drill in" on reverting the shortcut change back to cmd-F/cntrl-F in the msg list view (which still does -nothing- for me in win7 nor macos10.6.x for TB 8.0)...?  If the cmd-F mapping doesn't do anything in TB 8 msg list view, why did it need to be overridden (sp?) in the first place?

Comment 20

[Jim Porter (:squib)]

(In reply to hydrostarr from comment #19)
> Extremely helpful followup, freevito, thx much.
> 
> Am now wondering how much we can "drill in" on reverting the shortcut change
> back to cmd-F/cntrl-F in the msg list view (which still does -nothing- for
> me in win7 nor macos10.6.x for TB 8.0)...?

Ctrl-F is bound to "find in message". The only time this wouldn't do anything in the 3pane is if the message pane is hidden. Also, as mentioned above, you can resolve this by installing the KeyConfig add-on: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=72994

Comment 21

[Matt]

I am closing as fixed,  my reading of the topic is it dew to a close about 4 years ago.